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00:00:02: It's the power of the questions that creates the cognitive habits That allow the children to access our memory and our imagination into a cohesive

00:00:16: unit.

00:00:26: Hello, and welcome to The Arts Of Language podcast with Andrew Poudois founder of the Institute for Excellence in Writing or as many like to say IEW.

00:00:36: My name is Julie Walker, and I'm honored to serve Andrew and IEW as the chief marketing officer.

00:00:41: Our goal is to equip teachers and teaching parents with methods of materials which will aid them in training their students to become confident and competent communicators and

00:00:51: thinkers.".

00:01:00: So, Andrew...I want to remind our listeners about Vince Lombardi's story at the beginning.

00:01:07: every year he would tell his professional football team Like, these are pros.

00:01:13: You'd hold up a football and say this is a

00:01:17: football.".

00:01:18: And I just think that's so powerful.

00:01:21: such a good image for us because of course these professionals know what a football is!

00:01:27: Of course we just imagine those who know in love using IEW knows about our back to basics theme.

00:01:40: but Good and so powerful to remind people what we do why?

00:01:47: We do it in that power behind It.

00:01:49: And today is very much one of those basic things That we do when teaching writing, and that's asking questions.

00:01:57: Yeah So a lot of people when they first Start teaching the structure style stuff or their kids start getting into class for something They are struck by the fact Oh, this kid's immediately using better vocabulary writing more complex sentences not having the problem of I don't know what to say.

00:02:24: I don' t know what think and

00:02:26: write.".

00:02:26: And so they kind look at that and chalk it up to.

00:02:33: dress-ups makes all the difference.

00:02:37: The

00:02:37: stylistic techniques, that's what it is about?

00:02:39: That's fair enough because It can have that effect and usually does.

00:02:44: And even was my experience in the first couple of years I was teaching.

00:02:48: But over time i started to understand.

00:02:52: the real power Of the system isn't In style techniques which are wonderful and helpful many ways but is in the structural models because of two reasons.

00:03:09: Number one, that's how you get the kids from I don't know what to say?

00:03:15: To...I can write about anything and that You just can't jump there.

00:03:21: And a lot of writing programs they want to start.

00:03:24: Okay here's your prompt.

00:03:26: Here's your subject.

00:03:27: Brainstorm topics, brainstorm, brainstorm.

00:03:30: Make your mind maps.

00:03:34: For some kids it works, but for most they just don't get there from where they are.

00:03:40: Whereas what we've seen is that we teach this system using keyword outlines and we can get them.

00:03:47: We could almost every single kid to a point Where you can throw him the subject And then know What To Do With It.

00:03:53: You Know May Take More Than A Year But In Two Or Three Years I Think Its A Rare Case Where We Don't See This Huge Huge Growth more than just the writing side, it's really that thinking.

00:04:06: Exactly

00:04:07: and... That's a bold claim Andrew.

00:04:09: we say in our tagline listen speak read write think.

00:04:13: are we actually teaching students to think?

00:04:17: Well

00:04:17: depends how you define thinking.

00:04:19: but if we were to look at thinking in a more formal language-based recordable communicable way then yes because we're doing two things.

00:04:34: We are empowering the language and were developing processes of thinking, but I like to kind-of tease teenagers And i used to travel around do this thing called The High School Essay Intensive.

00:04:49: It was six hours all in one day for high school students at one point.

00:04:56: so how you think about stuff?

00:04:59: Like How Do You Think?

00:05:01: If someone says to you, think how do you make that happen?

00:05:06: And very few people can answer this question.

00:05:09: Very few adults I've met Can answer.

00:05:13: the most common answer That i would get Would be You use your brain.

00:05:19: Okay Fine How Do U Use Your Brain?

00:05:22: ?

00:05:23: I don't know.

00:05:25: You just Think of stuff.

00:05:27: It Just Happens.

00:05:29: if u wait around long enough it will come To you.

00:05:32: However, what we realize is things don't actually come to you.

00:05:37: They come from you especially if you have to write an essay For say a college entrance exam or the way they used to do on the SAT.

00:05:46: You have to think of stuff and write it down right now.

00:05:50: So how do we streamline that process?

00:05:52: And how does our instruction style methodology train them?

00:05:56: Right?

00:05:56: I just want to do a quick high school essay intensive.

00:06:00: You know, you and I worked together on a project even before i was working directly for IEW.

00:06:06: When we read... We didn't redo that one what we did but when we discontinued it because we came out with university-ready writing And took the concepts there to make them much more relevant today.

00:06:21: Much more complete?

00:06:22: Yes!

00:06:23: So What I like point is thinking of stuff in this context that you have to write, it's getting something out of your mind.

00:06:33: Out-of-your brain...out of your memory.

00:06:35: and the good in The Bad News is You're not gonna get Something out Of Your Mind That isn't In There To Begin With Right?

00:06:41: You Can't Think A Thought You can't think.

00:06:43: So Relax!

00:06:44: You Don't Have To!

00:06:45: You Just Have To Find Something That YOU DO KNOW And so..That's Kind Of Freeing.

00:06:52: Then I Will Tease Them Some More And Say Well If You Know Something AND YOUR MOM WANTS TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW What Does She Do?

00:06:59: Asked you questions.

00:07:01: They can always answer that one.

00:07:03: she asks You are the one time, you know was She hits you but before she resorts to punishments and violence?

00:07:10: She generally asked you, you Know where have you been?

00:07:13: what have you've been doing?

00:07:14: why did you do That?

00:07:15: who else was there?

00:07:17: What are you gonna Do next?

00:07:18: how Are you going to clean this up?

00:07:19: right?

00:07:20: your mom Tends To be a master question ask her.

00:07:24: so The trick then to thinking well is to become A master-question asking to yourself.

00:07:30: And that's where we get into the units, and we see the brilliance of the way it is put

00:07:35: together.".

00:07:36: I don't think that Webster ever really understood what he had come up with!

00:07:43: There was a certain amount of intuition...a certain number of inspiration....divine direction?

00:07:50: i dont know but its so brilliant because It works SO well with everyone.

00:07:57: So how do We start?

00:07:58: And a lot of people look at this, especially with older kids and they'll say well you're giving them the source text.

00:08:05: Then your just letting them rewrite that exact same thing.

00:08:07: They are not even thinking or creating.

00:08:11: it's like copy work only Not quite as bad.

00:08:16: What I'd like to point out is true But nobody has any problem.

00:08:20: i don't know what to write.

00:08:21: There IS an activity That happens here.

00:08:24: You have read sentence then stop and ask yourself a question.

00:08:30: What are the key words in this sentence?

00:08:33: It's an easy question, almost everybody can do it young or old but it is that first step.

00:08:41: you have to ask yourself The Question what Are the Key Words In This Sentence?

00:08:48: Choose Them And Copy Them.

00:08:50: Do That For The Whole Source Text.

00:08:52: Then You Have To Ask Next Question Which Is Why did I write these keywords?

00:08:57: Right.

00:08:58: And then you have to remember, call-to-mind find in your memory the idea that was connected with the key words either to tell it back or to write it out and That's what we do.

00:09:12: if you don't want to too.

00:09:13: It is interesting because some people immediately see The value of this especially If they came from kind Of a modern progressive approach To teaching.

00:09:23: They just think well too

00:09:27: easy,

00:09:27: but like anything it's the Vince Lombardi.

00:09:31: This is a football.

00:09:32: this is how you put on your socks.

00:09:34: this is How You Hold Your Utensile?

00:09:37: This Is How You Begin The Process and that's why we include Unit one & two with every single level whether the kids are in second grade or graduate school.

00:09:49: We start there then we move to unit three.

00:09:52: now Step for a lot of people because it is different.

00:09:58: You're not looking on the page for the keywords.

00:10:00: It's a different process.

00:10:02: you take the story, you read it and talk about it in your mind Then use the Story Sequence Chart to pull those ideas out from memory.

00:10:16: The questions are very structured.

00:10:19: so the first paragraph gets who's in this story when and where What's the situation?

00:10:26: And then in a second paragraph, it is basically what do they want or need.

00:10:31: What did I think of them and how are we going to solve this problem?

00:10:50: You kind of have a tag on question.

00:10:52: Why even have this story?

00:10:53: What's the message, what's the thing you get from it...what's the

00:10:57: value?".

00:10:58: So we have embedded then in The Three Paragraphs the who-what where why when how but In a categorical way that allows A child to methodically go through This process of put a Story into the brain Into the mind into the memory and Then pull It out And Reconstruct That Story using the questions of this story sequence chart.

00:11:22: Again, it doesn't require them to make up a Story from nothing.

00:11:29: It gives them a story To retell and then we have you know variations on that.

00:11:35: so down The line once you've done that a few times if its going well okay?

00:11:39: Well let's allow the children freedom to Change elements of that story.

00:11:45: maybe change the characters or setting keep the problem keep the characters and have a different problem, all sorts of variations.

00:11:53: But working with the story sequence chart is kind of that next step into accessing the memory.

00:12:01: And when you access the memory You activate the imagination.

00:12:05: That's something I think a lot of teachers don't necessarily understand.

00:12:10: It's something i've been thinking about A great deal.

00:12:13: We need to hold different podcasts on this but The relationship between memory and imagination.

00:12:20: So we start to see kids, if they didn't like writing very much anymore well now their able tell a story which is in natural function.

00:12:29: And then have the tools The questions of this story sequence.

00:12:34: Then We move to unit four.

00:12:36: Now were back on text with Unit Four.

00:12:38: so here's an article With information.

00:12:41: But trick here Is there too much Information.

00:12:45: And that's a place where lots of kids get overwhelmed, like I don't know how to deal with all this.

00:12:53: The word summarize which is popularly used in the world Is not a great word for most children because it doesn't mean anything to them.

00:13:05: and if they know even a little bit of math some SUM means the total.

00:13:13: so you know, they may inadvertently think well what I have to do then is tell all that much only in less space.

00:13:22: Nobody can do that.

00:13:23: so how do you negotiate this?

00:13:26: And that's where the question becomes a little tougher because it's a decision you have to make.

00:13:34: of all the information you have What Is The Most Interesting Or Important Or Relevant Bit Of That?

00:13:42: And so I like to point out when you're summarizing, You are just choosing some of it.

00:13:47: Not all of it.

00:13:48: So It should be spelled S-O-M-E-A-R-I-Z-E Because your sum arising and that makes sense to kids.

00:13:56: Okay Then they get to wrestle with.

00:13:58: well which Someofit Should i choose?

00:14:01: This is where I introduce the idea of Webster's edict Hands on instruction style.

00:14:08: hands off content right?

00:14:10: Follow the rules, follow the checklist.

00:14:11: Do the topic lyncher.

00:14:12: Follow the model.

00:14:14: do that stuff.

00:14:15: I don't care what you choose and i kind of joke with teachers sometimes too is it...I think if let kids choose what they think interesting You'll get more engaged kids.

00:14:26: probably better writing than if try to manipulate them into choosing You think they should think is important.

00:14:35: Mm-hmm.

00:14:36: And of course with maturity their choices improve so that summarizing it requires this kind of act of choice and That's a tough one Yep,

00:14:46: but even with choosing They're asking themselves questions Yeah

00:14:51: what?

00:14:51: What is interesting and why mm-hmm?

00:14:53: So then we get to pictures.

00:14:55: pictures There's no source text.

00:14:58: So now there's just A picture or a set of pictures, and you have to write a paragraph about each picture.

00:15:05: And we give them... ...a little bit of help saying that the topic sentence is what you see in the picture.

00:15:11: So now You Have To Write A Whole Paragraph About That Picture.

00:15:14: Now You Really Have To Access The Tools Of Who's In The Picture?

00:15:19: What Is That Animal Or Person Or Thing Thinking Feeling Doing?

00:15:24: Why When Did It Start?

00:15:27: Is there anything invisible in the pictures or is it something outside of picture?

00:15:31: And that really forces access to memory and imagination, because there wasn't a story That came to you.

00:15:43: You have to now invent The content!

00:15:55: find or discover.

00:15:57: It's a verb meaning I find, or discover in Venue.

00:16:00: so we get invention invent an inventory and We can't really invent something without stuff to invent with.

00:16:08: this is why the more stories kids have heard And read the more life experiences The richer the imagination the more easily they will be able To Find ideas to go.

00:16:18: With these pictures unit six Is unit four on steroids.

00:16:23: you not only Have a source text with too many facts, to much information.

00:16:28: You have too many sources with too much information.

00:16:32: and there's two ways you approach this plug it all into AI and ask if they do that for you or learn the process of collecting up choosing an then organizing in logical way as best you can how to write little mini research And we've talked about AI, I'm sure will more.

00:16:55: Well and i just want to say We have most recently done a podcast called When in How To Use AI?

00:17:02: So were not ignoring that as the tool.

00:17:05: but What's Appropriate?

00:17:06: You know if people say well why bother teaching kids to do this when technology does it way better than they ever Will?

00:17:14: It is almost saying like Why Have A Child Learned To Walk?

00:17:22: you're developing cognitive function.

00:17:25: You're developing thinking skills.

00:17:27: and then the questions are not just what's important, interesting or relevant but What is important to be relevant?

00:17:34: And how do those ideas fit together in a logical way Or for a purpose or to support a topic?

00:17:43: Yep Okay so I think that we're on unit seven.

00:17:46: This is The Blank Page.

00:17:48: this right about this Right About That You know, something you read that affected in some way.

00:17:55: Right about your favorite thing to do right?

00:17:58: About an imaginary event all that kind of prompt stuff and it's just you And Your brain and whatever you happen to carry around in it end the blank paper a lot Of times.

00:18:11: if you start there The kids don't have A Way To Do It.

00:18:15: but If you've built up over the six units they got fluency with questions and asking the question.

00:18:23: They know how to think about things, And then we add in a couple more skills such as division which is kind of first of important critical thinking skill.

00:18:35: so you have big thing divided into topics Then ask questions on each topic.

00:18:42: We can expand our questions from who what where why when How Different categories of questions.

00:18:48: So there's a sensory category what do you see?

00:18:50: What are here, or would he feel whether you taste where you smell?

00:18:53: and then There's also the critical questions like what's the best thing about something that's the worst thing About something other any problems if those problems are their solutions.

00:19:02: What's the value?

00:19:03: It was this significance with the impact And so that moves us Then into being ready for a unit eight which combines collecting up, organizing and presenting facts.

00:19:18: Like we did in Unit Six or Unit

00:19:19: Four or Six but with now the added purpose of arguing a point for at least telling all that you said about something what's most important significant valuable thing why?

00:19:34: And once get to unit eight model then off course can do anything.

00:19:40: And by this time, they understand enough to be doing this fairly independently.

00:19:50: I love it when i go to schools and... ...I'll meet some teachers who said oh these kids came into my class this year-my history class or science class!

00:20:02: They knew how to

00:20:02: write!!

00:20:02: Yes!!!

00:20:04: I haven't had that happen for a long time ever because someone in the school has given The Foundation of Units the previous years.

00:20:13: Then, of course we kind have the frosting on a cake which is The critique and writing from literature.

00:20:19: And this unit three eight hybrids.

00:20:23: So you're retelling story but also telling what do think about that story?

00:20:29: We even off shoots into Literary analysis.

00:20:33: But I think it took me A number years to understand That its power Of questions creates cognitive habits that allow the children, allows all of us to access our memory and our imagination.

00:20:51: And then organize what can be kind of a mishmash Of sensory impressions and things we remember or things snippets of something We heard you read into A cohesive unit of thought and combine those cohesive units of thought Into well-done composition.

00:21:11: And that's what we do at IEW.

00:21:13: That

00:21:13: is what We Do!

00:21:15: Thank you Andrew, thank You Thanks so much for joining us.

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